‘Focus on trust and stay at it’, Bouris and Symond tell brokers

At the 2024 event, held in Sydney, broker delegates heard from several leaders of the industry, including two of the industry heavyweights, Bouris (founder and executive chairman of Yellow Brick Road) and Symond (former CEO of Aussie Home Loans), as they reflected on the evolution of mortgage broking.

The changing point in their competitive dynamic

In a frank and humorous exchange, the duo reflected on how they had started as major competitors in broking during the 1990s/early noughties (through Bouris’ former non-bank lending business Wizard Home Loans and when Symond was at Aussie) reminiscing on the cat-and-mouse nature of their relationship when leading their respective brands.

However, once Wizard was sold to Aussie in 2008, the relationship changed to one of respect.

Bouris said: “[Aussie] wanted the people who ran the business, the franchisees/the brokers – that’s what they wanted and … I endorsed it. I said Aussie is a good place to go. It was a tough thing for me to do, to be honest with you.”

Symond said: “I think my view of Mark changed when I walked into the room and we had our first pitch. He was cool about it and not only that, Mark said: ‘Actually, this is the best place for my people.’ ... And I thought: ‘Ok, he gives a shit about these people.’

“It must have been hard for him because we said we were going to buy [his] business and we were going to put the Wizard brand aside and make sure everyone was under the Aussie brand, systems process ... It would have been very hard for him, but he took it in his stride… I don’t know whether we could have gone through that. But he did and next thing you know, he’s on a roadshow with us making sure that his people, and all people, understood the benefits of it. So, the respectability, by his actions changed a lot for us then. And it went from there. So, good on him for being that way.”

The future of broking

At the event, both Bouris and Symond reflected on their shared passion for the industry and for the people within the industry.

Indeed, while speaking on a panel session, the YBR executive chairman and former Aussie CEO both emphasised that brokers will continue to become more and more valuable to changing borrowing needs, shuttering bank branches, and evolving bank policies.

Bouris said: “People’s financial circumstances are changing quite rapidly … Borrowers are becoming more complex. And, as a result, I think lending is going to become more complex, which falls right into the hands of the broker. Because (I’ll make the assumption) brokers know about more products than a borrower does, and banks are always changing their appetite about where and who they want to lend to. And if a broker is up to speed, then a broker is always going to have that in his or her hand.

“And as a result of that, brokers are therefore going to become much more valuable to borrowers. So I think there’s a change in terms of borrower characteristics, financial characteristics, and that’s a reflection of how people live today.

“Young people want to go and work for themselves and a lot of these people wouldn’t satisfy the current bank lending environments or the mainstream bank lending environment. So they’re going to, at some stage … start looking to borrow from somewhere to buy a property.

“So, for me, a broker is the best-placed person in that environment.”

Symond agreed that the future of broking was bright: “The mortgage broking industry exists because – for consumers dealing directly with banks – it sucks. It’s complicated. It’s convoluted in most of the cases.

“And thank goodness that they [banks] weren’t as schlick as hell, because otherwise … we wouldn't have an industry!”

Advice for brokers

When asked by Pacella about what advice they would give brokers, the two industry leaders stressed the importance of trust, communication, and continuous learning.

Bouris said: “Make sure you’re valuable to your customer … So add value, and that means staying in communication all the time about what is valuable about yourself.

“Valuable communication, to me, is the most critical thing for a broker,” he said, noting that opportunities to provide clients with valuable support present regularly, including expirations of fixed rates, change of life circumstances, or new purchase opportunities.

”Just stay ahead of the game … you’ve got to keep working on them all the time and they have got to know who you are.”

The Wizard and YBR founder said part of his job had been “to make our brokers likeable, to the community, to the public”.

He said: “You have to make sure that your customer likes you and that, today, comes down to value. People don’t want you to waste their time, [they think]: ‘Tell me something is valuable, show me friendship, and I’ll like you for that. And if I like you, I trust you. Like and trust go together’.”

Symond agreed: “If consumers don’t trust you, it’s game over. Like is part of trust but trust is the essence of sales.”

However, Symond urged brokers – particularly new brokers – to back themselves and keep plugging away as broking “is a hard game”.

“Whether it’s sitting down with customers late at night, whether it’s sitting in their homes, whether it’s trying to start a business that’s an annuity business (and it takes you a year, two, three to start seeing some decent cash flows), this is a hard business. And it can be a bloody lonely business,” Symond said.

Symond said that many new brokers leave within the first two years of broking: “One of the challenges of this business is people pulling the plug too early, or people not being sustained for a longer time.

“I’ve seen too many people pull the plug too early. They might be in it for six months, 16 months, 26 months, and they go: ‘Look, this is shit. I’m never going to make any money. It’s all too hard. The guys that have been around four, five, six, seven, eight years, they were here for a different time, and they just got lucky’. Well, that’s bullshit. This is a longer-term game,” Symond said.

"You’re building an annuity business. It means, yeah, you got to hold on tight for the first six months, 16 months, 26 months. But if you’re any good, if you’re disciplined, if you can develop trust, it will happen. You will crack it.

“It is an awesome industry that has a lot of legs on it that you will do well in … it’s an exciting business with a real exciting future. And if you can stay disciplined to what you believe in, and truly believe in what you’re doing (in providing mums and dads housing and a roof over their head) and love what you do … that’s exactly how you guys need to think about it.

“So surround yourself with good people, surround yourself with other brokers that are like-minded, or in businesses that can help you (businesses that can provide training, support, technology are really important).

“Knowledge is power, and you guys [brokers] are it. So you’ll see more tools, more technology and more support, but know that learning, training, and making yourself evolve and be better, is what’s going to advance the industry. In the short to mid term, perhaps even long term, it’s about face to face, belly to belly. It’s about you.”

[Related: Recognising the Symond legacy]